Pissing Contest

[rkold]

I think the mods at DoA are having some sort of pissing contest with the former DoA mods now modding Resinality . I know some mods for both/either or, might read this, but about right now I want to stress this *IS* my private LJ, and I do think so long as I am polite in the community I should be allowed to speak my mind here without fear of repercussion and without needing to flock.

I'm not sure which set of mods thinks the general users are dense, but it's quite obvious that the splitting which made Resinality was *NOT* amicable and no amounts of posting in thanks to the former mods will convince me otherwise. The very fact news is shared on one forum and not the other should make that completely clear. I don't care what caused the split, both boards can have a purpose. Groups and allowing an OT group is brilliant idea. It's wonderful getting a chance to see which members I share things in common with and others I don't and I can ignore groups that don't interest me at all.

But it feels like DoA has suddenly decided it needs ads because Resinality has ads and people like it there! (Now why they couldn't decide we need an OT section instead... )

On Resinality, I don't mind it, Resinality has less than 10% the number of members of DoA and just does not have a marketplace the scope of DoA. DoA has given its users a week to switch to this new form without having worked out some major kinks and issues. Could the mods at both boards please stop the pissing contest and think of the actual people using your boards? Or if not invite in some new mods who are not just your friends and can give you input before you make gigantic changes. OK thanx!

Comments

[ladybrick.livejournal.com]

While the setup on Resinality looks nice, I think it's very telling that hardly any ads have been listed since it was implemented. I know it's a smaller community and all, but I found the ad system enough of a pain that I only bothered to list about 1/10th of the stuff I have for sale on DoA. In the end, I think the new marketplace is hurting more people than it helps and will only end up having a negative impact on the community feel of DoA :/

[rkold.livejournal.com]

Yes, and is it just me or does it feel like it was only implemented because of the Resinality one?!

I just don't get it. I mean on one hand maybe more people will find my Leeke wigs but I sort of doubt it. I might use this reprieve to post a few new things in my old thread. >>;

[ladybrick.livejournal.com]

I'm a browser more than a searcher, so I'll probably be doing less buying. Although, since it will be harder to sell stuff, it will probably work out that way anyway -_-

The ads I listed yesterday are already stuck in the rear, so they aren't likely to be seen by browsers. There's just too few items per page. And if I change a policy element, I have to go through and change every ad.

This really just makes it harder for almost everyone. Catering to buyers doesn't matter if there are far fewer sellers.

[spiderlace.livejournal.com]

XD I noticed Cassiel's user title above her icon says 'copycat' as she was posting in the DoA New Marketplace thread.

It's quite a big rift. Aimee even unfriended all the Resinality mods from her LJ (even those she'd been friends with for years), and anyone else who even advertised Resinality on her friendslist.

[pure-trance.livejournal.com]

Sheesh, I wonder what happened x_X; It seems to me that on it's own splitting off shouldn't cause that sort of tension.

[aimeekitty.livejournal.com]

guys, honestly, this is really none of your business, I don't mean that in a mean way, but I don't think it's fair to anyone involved to drag it out like this. I don't wish them any ill will, honestly. and it is not due to them making a new forum. Why are people stalking who I do or don't have on my flist anyway? Give me a little credit and some privacy please.

and as to the marketplace, please see my post below. Thanks.

[rkold.livejournal.com]

I had no idea. O_O

[thundermew.livejournal.com]

I LOVE the usergroups feature on R, and I could live with the classified ads there. Otherwise ... :X

[rkold.livejournal.com]

Usergoups and OT in particular is the most amazing thing. I love finding out things I had no idea about like Cassiel owns cats and lots of people share my love of Watership Down.

I don't visit the marketplace there at all.

[aimeekitty.livejournal.com]

I'm so sorry that this is bothering people outside of this, like you. I genuinely am. All I can say is that I have NO desire to have any sort of pissing match with any other forum. I know that people will have a hard time believing this, but the marketplace changes on DoA HONESTLY were not due to Resinality having them.
I honestly asked my server master, when we lost alot of our moderators, what HE thought we could do to improve, and this was one of his suggestions. I was NOT AWARE of the plugin on Resinality until we were already implementing it on Den of Angels.

All I can do is try to reassure you, as I have a lot respect for you, that I am not trying to have some kind of war or pissing match. I just want to make DoA better. We've been stagnating for a while and I really want to make, what I feel, are positive changes.

We're going to work hard to getting things working so that it's easier for people. I don't want to make it hard or scary for anyone. So please, have a little faith in us, we really are trying hard to do things to make things better for everyone, not to do a "ha ha! look what we did!" to ANY FORUM. Really. :(

[thundermew.livejournal.com]

I understand the reasonings behind the decision. I guess people are feeling a little blindsided by this, because it -is- a pretty drastic and sweeping change.

BTW, check your PP account pls!

[rkold.livejournal.com]

completely OT, but I love that LJ icon of yours. ^^;

I confess, if you or any of the other mods had stated that you were making this change in hopes of improving the DoA server, I think you'd have a lot fewer complaints.

To those of us who are not mods and not close friends with any of the mods, it does come off when it is so sudden and no other explanation is given that the idea has come from Resinality.

I really love DoA and I really enjoy using it. I've been looking forward to being able to share pictures and information there after I attend the Sato event on the 6th. It is really hard to keep something fresh and I don't really know what to tell you to help with stagnation, though in my opinion the debate subforum has been very interesting at times. I don't always agree with my fellow posters, but I've enjoyed interacting there immensely. If you mean specifically market stagnation, well, it's summer ^^;; The market always seems to stagnate more in the summer and it hurts that the economy in the US is not doing as well.

I'm not completely opposed to the idea of moving to ads, I just ask that before we move it would just be lovely if we solved some of the new issues first since I personally think it is easier to fix before it becomes a huge issue. I personally am not a very good programmer, but I'm happy to ask my husband who is a database person professionally if he has some solutions on how to enact some of the suggestions.

A keyword format with perhaps examples I think would just be lovely. I would love to know when I am looking for a Volks wig, I'm only going to get Volks wigs and not a fur one or a Leeke.

None of my criticisms here or on DoA have been meant as an insult to individual mods. I think anyone who is a mod is working a difficult and thankless job. I just think this is a very big change and one that is important to me as I like being able to both buy and sell things. ^^;

[aimeekitty.livejournal.com]

oh, I didn't mean market stagnation, I just meant that... hm....

think about it this way. DoA started out as a YG group, you know...? when we started the forum, that was a huge growing pain, but even then, we didnt have THAT many users, you know? so it's grown gradually, and I think that some of the choices we have made gradually, over the years, are not nessesarily the best choices for the user base _NOW_.
It is easy to say "this is the rule because it has been the rule". And I think with so many of the moderators leaving, regardless for their reasons for leaving, it has left the remaining ones thinking "hey,.. maybe we should rethink some of this stuff. is this really the best thing for our user base? what can we do to make it better?"

So that's what we are trying to do. I can honestly say that at this point we are more open to suggestions from members than at any other point. We really want you guys to tell us what you want, in particular concrete suggestions, so that we can make the forum better. :)

Actually, I can't speak for the other moderators, but I wouldnt be adverse to having your husband help out with the coding! Our server master will be working on it tonight, but what I would love most is a way to integrate shops into the system, to allow people to post in the same area, but still give them the benefits of a thread.
I dont know if that's possible or not, but something like that would solve a lot of problems.

also, like you said, a fixed keyword thing would help a ton.

we are trying to fix alot of it tonight, but if the users really just hate it, we're not going to force them to use it.

[rkold.livejournal.com]

I don't like the new format because it makes it harder to have your sales noticed and there is already a lot of key word spamming.

[ashbet]

Hiya -- sorry to be coming in randomly, I was linked to this post and wanted to explain a little bit.

>>>I'm not sure which set of mods thinks the general users are dense, but it's quite obvious that the splitting which made Resinality was *NOT* amicable and no amounts of posting in thanks to the former mods will convince me otherwise.

Whether or not there were personal issues between some of the moderators, we are *very* grateful for all the work they've put in over the years, and it would be graceless and ill-behaved of us not to acknowledge that. Modding on DoA isn't a lifetime judgeship -- people are welcome to leave if there's another project that they want to devote their time to.

I'm not sure why saying that we *are* grateful is somehow assuming that the readership/members are dense -- it's a public acknowledgment of the fact that they worked hard in a volunteer position, and they deserve thanks and well-wishes for it.

The very fact news is shared on one forum and not the other should make that completely clear.

I'm not really sure what you're referring to, but I'm certainly open to answering any questions you might have in regards to news.

Seriously -- DoA is never going to have an OT forum, we're never going to go 18+, and Resinality appeals to a different market share. Nobody's fighting over membership, and we're perfectly happy for people to belong to both forums.

I'm not going to say that the break wasn't difficult in some ways, but the fact that some people chose to go in a different direction doesn't mean that we have to be nasty about it.

We're listening to the members about the Marketplace, and are trying to work the bugs out as we speak. We may or may not go with that MP model given the feedback that we've gotten.

-- Andi :)

[rkold.livejournal.com]

Can I be so bold as to ask where my LJ is linked to from?

It's not the saying one is grateful, it's just hmmmm the post is written in such a way as it makes the split seem completely amicable when it is quite clear it is not. Again, I do not want the details, I am not involved.

I'm specifically referring to Cassiel posting on Resinality several days in advance of Ria Ria on DoA about the Sato Event. For me, this particular topic is very near and dear since I'm planning to go. ^^; I kept waiting to see if Cassiel or someone else would post it on DoA and was very surprised when it did not happen.

Actually, umm why not? When I mentioned to my friend muscatlove how I love the OT part of Resinality, she was completely shocked that DoA does not have an OT section and seemed to think an OT area was a normal part of forums. muscatlove is not a doll person.

I appreciate the mods temporarily rescinding the migration to work on the bugs first.

I don't mean this in a bad way, but I personally find people adjust better to change if its done over a longer period of time so they can become used to it. ^^

[spiderlace.livejournal.com]

^^ I think you're reading too into that one event, Rachel. Cassiel posted about the Huis Ten Bosch event yesterday on DoA.

[cc-lemon.livejournal.com]

I have no real awareness of any schism between the DoA mods and the Resinality mods. That's really none of my business. I only became aware of Resinality today when another member suggested I check it out.

My main concern was that if we switched over to the new MP exclusively it had the potential to completely kill sellers like Gina, St. James and others like me who do both direct sales and commissions and frankly, the commissions forums are a sales wasteland, as far as I've noticed. Further, there doesn't seem to be any provision at all for sellers like Gina, who'd basically have to list every eye type and color and every size separately and that's a burden as well as a disaster in the making.

Rachel, you have no idea how much I appreciate you jumping into the fray with some very sensible suggestions and evenhanded thoughts on the matter, as well as with this post here. It's very brave of you. *hugs*

And, as an aside, I wish you all the luck in the world getting a Yuki next week. For as long as I've known you this has been your grail doll and no one deserves it more.

[aimeekitty.livejournal.com]

cc, I hope you don't mind me responding,

but honestly, if threads worked better for sales of your type, we wouldnt force you to use the new format.

We're giving this some thought and we'll test some things and see how it goes. If it doesnt work out, it doesn't work out. We don't want people to have to use something that doesn't work AT ALL for them, you know?

anyway, if you have suggestions on how we can do it, or other parts of DoA better, please pm one of us. We really are trying to make positive changes and to listen to what people say about how they like to use the forum best. I'm sorry if this seemed like a sudden and harsh change. we really thought that people would like it, which is why we added it.

[blastmilk.livejournal.com]

Just know that we'd never move forward with a deal breaker that would kill users abilities to make use of the marketplace. It just wouldn't happen.

We might try to make it work with the current system, but only if it actually COULD work, ya know?

Nothing is set in stone.

p.s. rachel, sorry to horn in! xo...

[rkold.livejournal.com]

Resinality is a great place for OT. I admit, for me it's nice to get a sense of the person outside of just their dolls. I love my dolls and I love the characters they represent, but I love my cats more. (which is prob good since they are alive!)

Gina has a difficult situation and it's both a burden and a disaster for her and difficult on someone like me if I decide to sell say a pair of 14 mm eyes. I know it's one reason I stopped checking eBay. It was just too much to sift through and I'd rather spend my time talking to people. ^^;

I'm glad my views came off as sensible and evenhanded. I think the mods do work very hard and I don't think it's proper to be rude, but I also really don't think we're ready for this change and not this fast. I try very hard to live up to the guidelines I give to myself, lol I'm odd like that. *hugs*

BTW I did friend you, I'm sorry I deleted you at one point but I admit, I get very sensitive when I feel like people don't respond to my posts. I hate feeling like I am talking into space. I confess I am surprised by what a strong response this post has generated.

And thank you so much about Yuki. It means a lot to me. I have wanted a Yuki for so so so long and the though I might finally get mine and at original price just makes me so happy.

[cc-lemon.livejournal.com]

Never fear you're talking into thin air. I don't always comment if I don't feel I have anything valuable to add, but I always read. Sorry if it seemed like I was stepping out of the loop. It has been a very complicated year for me, between Takira's injury and my time away from home helping her then my own health issues, so I've been pretty quiet on even my own LJ. D'oh!

Your participation and willingness to share information both on your LJ and at DoA has always been laudable. I loved the Sato pics and your updates are always fun and exciting. It's like sharing your trips vicariously!

When I first read about these changes, Gina immediately came to mind, particularly because while, strictly speaking, I could fall into the commissionable forums, as much as the idea worries me, but Gina really can not. Managing her store in individual posts would be a nightmare of cumbersome cutting and pasting and following up on dozens of individual ads. I know that kind of time commitment would be daunting to me. I just would much rather spend my available time making garments.

I did take a look at the proposed new MP, and it looked like it could be a fun for buyers, just from the standpoint of scrolling through, looking at thumbnails. It's a great tool for buyers and for the occasional seller with one or two items from time to time.

However, I don't see it as a realistic replacement to the current sales forums. We've got dozens of members who can't seem to manage to tag whether their ads are WTB or WTS. Expecting them to somehow decipher and properly post with multiple tags for a split? Many multiple items? I don't see it being anything but a headache unless it's a simple sale.

What I'd love to see is the addition of this new MP, once its many bugs and questions are ironed out, along side the current sales forums. I stopped lookng at Ebay some time ago because it was simply too cumbersome and full of scalpers and scammers, but the DoA version should be a manageable size with mostly trustworthy sellers. As an adjunct to the current sales forums, it'd be a terrifc and fun tool.

I'd still love to see a WTB sub-forum, in spite of the past resistance to establishing one. I know I'd look at it; I have lots of potential sale items floating around and it'd be worth my time. I'd post there as well.

Change is always hard. Resistance to change is also hard to accept when a group of mods have a vision. I think all of us just want it to be a fun, efficient and pleasant environment to buy and sell and have every intention of cooperating. I'm really grateful, Rachel, that you've opened your LJ for this discussion. It's provided a wonderful neutral ground for us all to share our ideas and thoughts.

[rkold.livejournal.com]

Feeling like I am talking into space is a huge emo issue for me. Probably one could trace it to me feeling insecure about how interesting I really am. lol I saw your article in the July FDQ and I was really impressed. You're so much better at taking pictures than me. I did mean what I said at the NY Dolpa. It was lovely seeing you and Kennis loves that pullover you gave him. He wears that or the red jacket I bought him most of the winter once he gets home from work.

It's a lot of work for someone like Gina and she would end up (unintentionally!) crowding out smaller sellers too. I know once I see 24 tiny images of different color eyes all in 18 mm, I start going. *___* I can't page through that many before they all start looking the same.

I do like the idea of thumbnails. I'm constantly trying to sell wigs I don't want anymore and a thumbnail might help sell some. But I do like the browsing. Some sellers just have an item or two, but me for example, I am generally selling 10-15. I'm not a store, it's just odds and ends that haven't worked out in my quest to have my dolls represent the right characters for me.

Yes, I've seen that, it goes along with sellers who don't get rid of their threads. I discovered this when I was trying to get my School C.

I admit, I only look at eBay to sell (anime stuff) or if someone points me to an auction. I don't even really look at Y!J much anymore. (Except Geass doujinshi occasionally >>; ) With eBay it got to be too much work and Y!J the fees got too high too quickly. And wow, you just gave me an idea of a suggestion for the new MP!

I actually think we have more BJD items for sale on DoA than on eBay, or at least last time I checked eBay.

I sometimes look at WTBs too! I've actually sent people PMs with WTB threads if they were selling or thinking of selling one of the things someone WTB. I helped my friend sell her Cristal outfit because I saw a WTB thread where the person was offering a reasonable amount for it. (My friend is making Cristal into a boy >>; )

I'm really glad that everyone was so mature in my LJ and open to discussing this issue and not just being upset or having hurt feelings. I thought about locking this post, because I didn't want to end up on Fandom_Wank and because despite complaints I really do respect the mods and the work they're trying. I don't always agree, but that's not the same thing.

I miss talking to you sometimes nd I really hope you're doing well and secretly, I hope my little gardening exploits amuse you as well. At the moment, I'm worried what I am going to do when the garlic comes because I think I over-ordered. lol I've been fortunate and have not personally had any health problems, but I do understand having to help important people to you with serious health issues.